[SABN] [capebirdnet] Rat poison

[S.A. National Bird of Prey Centre]

Hi Isabella

In a nutshell yes. Whether or not the cellulose swells I can not tell you.

As I understand it and from what I can remember there are three types of 
cellulose A B and C, rodents are unable to digest cellulose A or Alpha 
Cellulose.

Our soft cuddy rat ends up with the mother of constipations, is unable to 
absorb any nutrients and while his system try's to excrete this "food" 
matter it causes abrasions within the intestines causing infection and the 
little rat dies very thin and dehydrated.

An owl eating an Eco Rat/Mouse ends up with an extra dose of roughage which 
as you say is regurgitated as part of its pellet.

No idea on the LD but as Adam says its properly meaningless however using 
Eco Rat on rodents I have had a LD100.

I have heard from thousands of people that Racumin is the safer option, just 
goes to show the value of marketing and endorsements, money well spent.

Take care
Trevor

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Isabella Hayden" <haydenic at kingsley.co.za>
To: "S.A. National Bird of Prey Centre" <raptor at icon.co.za>; "'capebirdnet'" 
<capebirdnet at yahoogroups.com>; "SA Birdnet" <sabirdnet at lists.ukzn.ac.za>; 
"Ranger Piet" <rangerpiet at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [SABN] [capebirdnet] Rat poison


> Hi Trevor
>
> Thanks for this useful information.  Let me see if I understand 
> correctly -
> the cellulose swells when it gets wet inside the intestine of the rat or
> mouse, preventing
> digestion of any other food, so the rat starves or dies of intestinal
> poisoning.  If an owl eats the rat, the cellulose can't swell any further
> and it will be regurgitated in the owl's pellet later?
>
> This does sound safer than an LD50 poison - what is the LD rating for
> Rattex, as a matter of interest?  I don't have any particular favourite 
> but
> had heard that Racumin was the better option.
>
> I'd still like to hear from people what is out there on the shelves.
>
> Regards
>
> Isabella
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "S.A. National Bird of Prey Centre" <raptor at icon.co.za>
> To: "Isabella Hayden" <haydenic at kingsley.co.za>; "'capebirdnet'"
> <capebirdnet at yahoogroups.com>; "SA Birdnet" <sabirdnet at lists.ukzn.ac.za>;
> "Ranger Piet" <rangerpiet at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [SABN] [capebirdnet] Rat poison
>
>
>> Hi Isabella
>>
>> Potentially a very controversial subject you are trying to address, and 
>> it
>> is not my intention to open up a can of worms here on SABN or elsewhere. 
>> I
>> think your intentions are good, however in my opinion you might be
>> misinformed.
>>
>> On what do you base your statements "all the worst poisons - Rattex is 
>> the
>> first name that springs to
>> mind" and "the less dangerous poison, Racumin"?
>>
>> The only fundamental difference between the two, and this would also 
>> apply
>> to the other rodenticides, is that Racumin was endorsed as being
>> "environmentally (and owl) friendly." It is debatable whether or not the
>> other
>> poison manufactures would have gotten the same endorsement as Racumin if
>> they were as generous as Bayers with their sponsorship/s.
>>
>> Why is Racumin touted as being "environmentally friendly"? I had the 
>> cheek
>> to ask what warranted Racumin getting this endorsement
>>
>> 1. Because it has to be ingested more than once to inflict a lethal dose.
>> 2. so the chance of secondary poising is reduced.
>>
>> on enquiring what science justified the endorsement it was
>>
>> 1. Its a LD 50 poison
>> 2. A NGO made the endorsement not them
>>
>> The explanation given to me on being pushed as to what LD50 means - 
>> lethal
>> dose 50, of a 100 chickens feed the poison 50 died and 50 survived. Now
>> that's what constitutes "environmentally friendly"!
>>
>> It is my contention that Rattex might be safer for Owls than Racumin, as
> the
>> chances of an Owl ingesting Racumin might be far greater. The reasons I
>> believe this are that Owls are not "vulturine" birds i.e they do not eat
> off
>> carrion, so a dead Rattex rat is of no interest to an Owl, in fact the 
>> Owl
>> would probably be total unaware of said rat. Secondly like most predators
>> Owls are opportunist hunters. To illustrate this an Owl sitting in a tree
>> hears and/or sees a Ferrari rat run pass. The Owl launchers its attack,
> the
>> odds of the rat escaping are greater than of being caught. Along comes a
>> doped up headache plagued first time consumer of Racumin easy pickings 
>> for
>> an Owl. The truly opportunist Owl will not survive long on discovering a
>> Racumin bait station.
>>
>> I for one do not support Racumin as I believe the chances of secondary
>> poisoning for Owls (and other predators) are far greater than with other
>> rodenticides. A few years ago a proposed trial on the effects of Racumin
> by
>> myself using non releasable Owls was torpedoed before we could get it
>> underway.
>>
>> Traps are great and so is Vastrap or Vasvat or whatever its called.
>> Unfortunately
>> certain animal welfare/rightist organizations are calling for a ban on
> these
>> glues as they are not humane.
>>
>> In my opinion the only rodent "poison" that is environmentally safe would
> be
>> "Eco Rat" or "Eco Mouse". Both of these products are not a poison
>> (unfortunately some people refer to them as such) but an organic food
> source
>> that kills rodents. There is no secondary poisoning, its bio-degradable
> and
>> not harmful to people, birds or non rodents. The active ingredient is
> alpha
>> cellulose which rodents can not digest. In effect the cellulose impact 
>> the
>> intestines of rodents and they die from the inability to absorb nutrients
> as
>> well as infections caused by trying to pass the blockage. The good thing
> is
>> once dead there is next to no smell as the rat or mouse has used up all
>> their fat reserves.
>>
>> The only downside to Eco Rat/Mouse in my opinion is its palatability to
>> rodents, hopefully the manufactures will add more molasses into the mix.
>> I've eaten a handful while challenging a proponent of Racumin to do the
>> same, and it had no effect and saved me having my daily ration of bran.
>>
>> There you have it - "Efekto Eco Rat and Eco Mouse is endorsed by Trevor 
>> as
>> an Environmentally and Owl friendly rodent control method." (Efekto roll
> on
>> the sponsorship).
>>
>> Regards
>> Trevor
>
>
>
>
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